Thursday, October 12, 2006

Andrewes and Calvin: Are they Really Saying the Same Thing?

There is a discussion over at Reformed Catholicism that has been taking place concerning the Caroline Divines and their place among the Continental Reformers. I have obviously read in Andrewes' theology of the Eucharist quite extensively in my last two years of research. I find it a bit odd that some Evangelicals place the Caroline Divines in the same category as Continental Reformers on their Eucharistic theologies. I believe the moderator of the site believes the discussion has gone on too long but I link it here for any of you who would like to discuss the things said pertaining to Andrewes, Calvin and the other Carolines of choice. I especially invite Fr. Brian to our discussion here as well. Some of this stems from my post below on Calvin, Andrewes and Trent.


Blogger Brian Douglas said...


I have tried to make a contribution as you suggest. I would be interested in your feedback.

May be a little busy over the next few days as Synod begins tomorrow after Synod Eucharist tonight and then I return to school on Monday for yet another busy term. My Year 12 (the final year of schooling here) Studies of Religion class has 30 students and my new Year 11 class which I am about to begin has 25. That should keep me out of trouble!

Hope your work is going well. I am still waiting for examiner's reports - anxiety plus.

1:27 pm  
Blogger Kevin D. Johnson said...

Jeff, I didn't mean to imply that the discussion was too long, only that Peter might want to think about taking it to a separate blog entry and continuing it there. Sorry if I made it sound like we couldn't talk about it anymore.

3:17 pm  
Blogger Jeff said...

Well, I haven't posted anything in the past few days as I wanted to see what was going to come of this discussion, if anything. It seems to have moved in another direction of philosophy and I await the questions on sacrifice to be looked into. There is plenty more of Andrewes yet to be read and discussed!

7:01 am  
Blogger KosmicEggburst said...

Andrewes dealt with eucharistic recapitulation of the history of salvation in the eucharist that brought the sacrament to a new level of understanding and appreciation as never before. This may not be the only appealing thing about his work, but it really resonated within as something I was unable to articulate in words, but could relate well to.

There are connections I can see here and there with Andrewes and the Institutes, both Calvin and Andrewes view the mysterious feeding on Christ in similar fashion, and from there, seem to take two different trajectories as you were able to bring out earlier.

What is disturbing about Calvin is the open hostility he has toward the Roman system, but then again, the papal bull written on him had to have had some kind of effect on him as a human being. Many critics focus on Calvin's stoicism, Vatican II makes Calvin look rebellious, but when it comes to the core essence of maintaining a claim to the real presence, Andrewes and Calvin would have been closer to advancing the kingdom than the Marburg Colloquy.

8:56 am  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

Papal bull against Calvin? Aren't you confusing him with Luther?

2:38 am  
Blogger KosmicEggburst said...

Define "confusing". It was impossible to nail John Calvin directly, wasn't it?

7:29 pm  

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