Thursday, May 11, 2006

Dix on Cranmer's Eucharistic Sacrifice

Image and video hosting by TinyPic

Dom Gregory Dix writes the following of Cranmer's view of Eucharistic Sacrifice:
The ministers of the eucharist are thus acting as such simply as officials if the secular government of the Christian state in Cranmer's opinion. Such was his idea in 1540 and he insisted on defending the same opinion at his trial in 1554, declaring that 'Nero was head of the church' in his day, 'that is in worldly respect of the temporal bodies of men, of whom the church consisteth; for so he beheaded Peter and the apostles. And the Turk (t.e. Sultan) too is head of the church of Turkey.'1 It is therefore not likely that he shall find anything which may be fairly interpreted in terms of a differentiation of 'order', as the primitive church understood it in Cranmer's liturgies of 1549 or 1552, still less anything corresponding to the idea of a priestly 'oblation'. Nevertheless, as we have seen (D. l) Cranmer does admit an idea of oblation in the eucharist, which he calls 'a sacrifice of laud, praise and thanksgiving.' He defines carefully the sense in which it is so.
He then goes on to provide this quotation below from Cranmer where he describes how Eucharist is and is not a Sacrifice.
'In this eating, drinking and using of the Lord's Supper, we make not of Christ a new sacrifice propitiatory for remission of sin. But the humble confession of all penitent hearts, their acknowledging of Christ's benefits, their thanksgiving for the same, their faith and consolation in Christ, their humble submission and obedience to God's will and commandments, is a sacrifice of laud and praise, accepted and allowed of God no less than the sacrifice of the priest.'
There is indeed a sacrifice of praise and thanksgiving in the Eucharist and that point is not contested. But when one reads through the Fathers of the Church one will find that this is not the only way the Eucharistic Sacrifice was described. It was set within such language as 'offering of the Victim' and 'one and the same offering of the Victim,' etc. Cranmer obviously knew the Fathers well and I wonder what it is that kept him from acknowledging the Church's teaching on this up to this point in the Church's history! Until the Reformation, there was no questioning or challenging of the concept of Eucharistic Sacrifice. It was and IS the Church's teaching. So, why does Cranmer limit it the way that Dix says that he does?


Anonymous I'd rather not say said...

I'm not competent to answer this question, but relevant to this discussion, if not directly on point, is the following posted at The Continuum:


4:40 am  
Blogger Jeff said...

Thanks for the link. His 21 century example could be turned by around by a Clark, Massure, or a de la Taille to say, fine, another abuse of what the doctrine is actually saying. One could use multiple other examples that do not argue for a crass realism and one such example is JPII's encyclical on Eucharistic sacrifice. Most scholars today would and do lament the abuses and examples that he gives.

Later Anglicans like John Johnson and even bits of Jeremy Taylor, and Hebert Thorndike all view the presence to inhere in the elements objectively and believe in a offering to God of the One Sacrifice (same Victim) in the Eucharistic offering. This comes from earlier divines in the Caroline period championed by L. Andrewes.

6:24 am  
Blogger lexorandi2 said...

Jeff, if you want to be fair to Cranmer than get your head out of Dix's book and read Cranmer's Defence. ;-)

There is a one word answer to your question: Transubstantiation. Of course this begs further explanation, including a fuller account of how philosophical nominalism distorted the catholic doctrine of presence into crass physicalism.

Also, Cranmer acknowledges that the Fathers used such language, and all but admits that the only thing that renders such language problematic is the doctrine of Transubstantiation (read "crass physicalism"), which he rightly holds the Fathers did not hold.

3:33 pm  
Anonymous William Tighe said...

If the Church has the authority to endorse and enforce as a test of orthodoxy a word -- let us say "homoousios" -- to which many had sincere theological exceptions and to which not a few continued to oppose subsequently and to which, from time to time in later centuries individuals continued to object as "unScriptural" or "making a dogma out of a philosophical idea" (as many did and do), then the Church has the same right to endorse another such word (like "transubstantiation") and to require its acceptance by the Faithful -- even though, in both cases, the word might give rise to "gross" and "carnal" understandings and practices. Dix was at least intelligent enough to recognize that (as in his posthomously-published *Jurisdiction in the Early Church* [1975]).

For my part, I would repeat my past statement that, far from avoiding Dix, you should read Timms' "Dixit Cranmer," Dix's "Dixit Cranmer Et Non Timuit" and Richardson's "Zwingli and Cranmer on the Eucharist" -- and then, and only then, go back and read Cranmer (and Stephen Gardiner's and Cuthbert Tunstall's responses to Cranmer).

4:27 pm  
Anonymous I'd rather not say said...

Re: all of the above.

Is Andrewes' judgment that this is all a logomachia right after all, then?

9:50 pm  
Blogger lexorandi2 said...

For the record, I have no problem with the word Transubstantiation.

10:21 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...

KabRfi [url=http://isabllemarant.tripod.com/]sneakers isabel marant[/url] LxoK WybO
[url=http://www.bcbgdress.ca/bcbg-evening-gowns-c-1.html]bcbg dresses canada[/url] bzQyt fnBzmc
NklC WplW YoaC [url=http://www.sacmichaelkors2013.info]les sacs michael kors[/url] Have You Got Any france Inquire [url=http://www.sacmichaelkors2013.net]michael kors pas cher[/url] 2013? SsyR JPzlB XfaH [url=http://www.sneakersisabelmarantsolde.biz]isabel marant pas cher[/url] XCaqS KsoN
Innovative essay [url=http://www.sacguesssoldes.info]sacs a main guess[/url] exposes the intel [url=http://www.sacguesssoldes.com]montre guess femme[/url] over france and in addition the reason why you should take [url=http://www.lunettesdesoleil2013.biz]carrera[/url] action this afternoon.
GplV [url=http://www.longchampbagsuk.biz]longchamp bags[/url] offers brand-new lifespan into an old issue. [url=http://www.longchampbagsuk.biz/longchamp-le-pliage-large-tote-c-9.html]longchamp sale[/url] defacto industry-standard [url=http://www.michaelkorsbagsoutlet.org]michael kors handbags[/url] Our Brand-new [url=http://www.michaelkorsbagsoutlet.org/michael-kors-bedford-bags-c-3.html]michael kors outlet[/url] program Can Work [url=http://www.michaelkorscanada.info]michael kors[/url] VgoYR zhQIvn
dhJBrq [url=http://www.michaelkorscanada.info/michael-kors-clutches-c-1.html]michael kors[/url] The most fun [url=http://www.bagslongchampsale.info]longchamp le pliage[/url] you can have without cutting out [url=http://www.bagslongchampsale.info/longchamp-large-tote-c-10.html]longchamps[/url] frJAzk zhTXb
KguWro [url=http://saclancelpascher.org]sac lancel[/url] MfaGqr FgqQxc [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.org/lancel-french-flair-c-6.html]lancel pas cher[/url] JvoRcg IrkFke [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.org/lancel-premier-flirt-c-1.html]sac lancel[/url] FuoOsz JvsSst [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.net]lancel pas cher[/url] MgzAao StoCgm [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.net/category/sac-lancel]lancel adjani[/url] PrrVxa[url=http://www.saclancelpascher.net/plus-lancel]lancel adjani[/url] EgkFxj
GikZet [url=http://saclancelpascher.biz]sac lancel[/url] HwhLkp [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.biz/sacs-lancel-french-flirt-c-7.html]lancel soldes[/url] DmvYan [url=http://www.sacburberryoutlet.info]burberry soldes[/url] DhcVpx fpAol [url=http://www.sacburberryoutlet.info/sac-burberry]burberry soldes[/url] RzeAyv VscWrv [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.info]lancel soldes[/url] OtvIer [url=http://www.saclancelpascher.info/lancel-soldes]sac à main lancel[/url] JixSmk

6:22 am  

Post a Comment

<< Home

    O God, most glorious, most bountiful, accept, we humbly beseech thee, our praises and thanksgivings for thy holy Catholic Church, the mother of us all who bear the name of Christ; for the faith which it hath conveyed in safety to our time, and the mercies by which it hath enlarged and comforted the souls of men; for the virtues which it hath established upon earth, and the holy lives by which it glorifieth both the world and thee; to whom, O blessed Trinity (+), be ascribed all honour, might, majesty and dominion, now and for ever. Amen.
    --Bishop Lancelot Andrewes

Societas Sanctae Crucis

About Me

My Profile


  • To the Theotokos
  • My Parish Church
  • Taking Jesus to the Streets
  • The Angelus
  • Steel Family News
  • Anglicans For Life
  • My PHD Supervisor
  • Diocese of Durham
  • N.T. Wright Bishop of Durham
  • Bishop of Beverley FiF PEV
  • Forward in Faith
  • Religious of orthodox Tradition
  • Our Lady of Walsingham
  • Church of England
  • Church Times
  • C of E News
  • New Directions
  • Anglican Comm News Service
  • CaNN Classical Anglican News
  • Anglican Mainstream
  • Catholic World News
  • Zenit News
  • First Things
  • University of Durham
  • St. John's College
  • Touchstone: Mere Comments
  • American Chesterton Society
  • G.K. Chesterton
  • The "Colossal Genius"
  • C.S. Lewis
  • Dr. Marianne Dorman
  • Bishop Lancelot Andrewes
  • Theologia
  • The Paul Page
  • Renaissance Music
  • Wodehouse
  • Project Canterbury
  • Rosemary Pugh Books
  • Pusey House Oxford
  • Comm of the Resurrection
  • Anglicanism
  • Alexander Schmemann
  • Traditional-Anglican
  • Trushare Great Links
  • Books and Books
  • Paedocommunion
  • Summa Theologica
  • Didache
  • N.A.Patristics Society
  • Visit Olde World Family Heritage
  • Cardinal Newman Writings
  • EWTN
  • Vatican Library
  • Tune in to Ancient Faith Radio
  • Anglo-Catholic Central
  • Women for Faith and Family
  • Catholic Culture
  • Being better Dads.org
  • Anglicana Ecclesia
  • Catholic Societies

  • Mary:Grace and Hope in Christ
  • SSC England and Scotland
  • King Charles the Martyr
  • Catholic League Unitas
  • Catholic Union
  • Conf of the Blessed Sacrament
  • Society of Mary
  • Priests for Life
  • Anglican Blogs

  • TitusOneNine
  • Anthropax
  • Sacristan
  • Curate Repose
  • Whitehall
  • Apostolicity
  • The Patristic Anglican
  • All Too Common
  • Prydain
  • Thinking Anglicans
  • Drell's Descants
  • A-C Ruminations
  • emergent like slime
  • Open Thou our Lips
  • Haligweorc
  • The Confessing Reader
  • Dr. Leander Harding
  • Tex Anglican
  • St. George the Martyr
  • The Oxford Movement
  • Continuing Anglican
  • Wyclif.net
  • Third Mill. Catholic
  • Anglican Eucharistic Theol
  • Fr. Brian Douglas
  • RatherNot Blog
  • Full Homely Divinity
  • St.Peters London Docks Blog
  • In Hoc Signo Vinces
  • Anglican Wanderings
  • Timotheos Prologizes
  • Global South Anglican
  • Deaconess
  • Liturgical Links

  • 1549 Book of Common Prayer
  • 1550 Merbecke
  • 1559 Book of Common Prayer
  • 1570 Roman Mass
  • 1637 Scottish Prayer Book
  • 1662 English Prayer Book
  • 1718 Nonjurors Communion
  • 1928 Book of Common Prayer
  • 1962 Roman Mass
  • 1962 Roman Propers
  • 1969 Roman Mass
  • 1987 Anglican Use Mass
  • Pearcy Dearmer Everyman's History of the Prayer Book
  • The Liturgy of St. James
  • The Liturgy of St. Chrysostom
  • The Liturgy of St. Basil
  • Lectionary Central
  • Catholic Calendar
  • Common Prayer Calendar
  • The Roman Breviary
  • Anglican Breviary
  • Cantica Nova
  • The Music Makers
  • Catholic Liturgy Site
  • Directorium Anglicanum
  • Catholic Blogs

  • Numerous British Catholic Blogs
  • Carpe canum
  • Ignatius Insights
  • Ancient and Future Catholics
  • Catholic Pontificator
  • Random Thoughts
  • Fr. Newman's Web page
  • fides et ardor
  • St Paul Centre for Theology
  • Canterbury Tales
  • The Shrine of Holy Whapping
  • Sacramentum Vitae
  • Cardinal Schonborn
  • Pertinacious Papist
  • Ratzinger Online
  • The New Liturgical Movement
  • Scripture and Tradition
  • Against the Grain
  • Mark Shea
  • ad limina apostolorum
  • Dappled Things
  • Amy Welborn Old Blog
  • Amy Welborn New Blog
  • Catholic Catechism
  • Benedict Blog
  • Mike Aquilina
  • Libertas et Memoria
  • Video melior
  • Orthodox Blogs

  • Energies of the Trinity
  • Orthodoxy Today
  • Monachos
  • Onion Dome
  • This Is Life
  • Orthodoxie
  • Chrysostom Web Page
  • Society of Chrysostom
  • Cathedra Unitatis
  • Our Life in Christ
  • Orthodox Way
  • Exploring Orthodoxy
  • Everything Orthodox
  • Parish Web Sites

  • Durham Cathedral
  • St. Peters London Docks
  • St. Silas London
  • St. Mary Mag Middlesex
  • St. Augustine London
  • St. John the Evanglelist Berks
  • St. Pancras London
  • St. James the Great Darlington
  • St. Mary Bletchingley
  • St. James Paddington London
  • St. George Hanworth
  • St. Helens Auckland
  • St. Mary Magdalene Sunderland
  • Archives