Tuesday, January 03, 2006

Eucharist and Immolatus: Abbot and Andrewes

Last evening I was in bed reading A Key to the Doctrine of the Eucharist by Abbot Vonier. He was a bestselling author in England in the 1920s. This book is a very good read for the simple (like myself) to help us get our heads around the Eucharistic theology of Rome. I was reading the chapter on the 'Essence of Eucharistic Sacrifice' and I read something that caught my attention again. Speaking of the immolation in the Eucharistic offering Abbot explains what it is that Rome really teaches. He says,
It is evident froom the very nature of the hypothesis here made by Saint Thomas that the reality of the Eucharistic Sacrifice could never depend on an intrinsic change, eith in Christ's Person or in His Body and Blood, at the moment of the sacrificial immolation on the altar. May we not say that by its never nature the Eucharistic immolation is assumed to take Christ's Body and Blood as it finds them, in the state in which they happen to be? The immolation itself never causes a new state. If Christ, considered in His natural mode of existence, be a mortal man like ourselves, as He was at the Last Supper, the Eucharistic immolation is accomplished in the mortal Body and Blood; if Christ be in the glorious state, as He is now in heaven, the Eucharistic immolation is accomplished in an immortal Body and Blood; if Christ be actually dead, the Eucharistic immolation is accomplished in a Body and Blood which are not quickened by the Soul. In other words, the Eucharistic immolation transcends the states either of Christ's Person or His Body and Blood; it does not cause any state. Such varieties of state are caused by Christ's natural mode of existence, at the time...There is undoubtedly a tendency in modern piety to read into the mystery of the Eucharistic sacrifice certain factors of a more extreme kind which seem to give greater reality to the Eucharistic immolation than is warranted by the strictly sacramental view. But let us constantly remember that in the sacrament we are not dealing with the natural life of Christ; we are dealing with His representative life. The Eucharistic Body and Blood represent Christ's natural Body and Blood. The Protestant would go only so far as to say that the Eucharistic bread and wine represent Christ's Body and Blood; the Catholic goes beyond that and says that Christ's Body under the appearance of bread and Christ's Blood under the appearance of wine represent His natural Body and Blood as they were on Calvary. 76, 77
Now let's compare something that Andrewes said below in another post. Read Andrewes carefully and slowly in relation to what Abbot is saying here about what is immolated. Note the reference to status in both paragraphs that I have chosen to compare. Andrewes is also speaking about the sacrificial immolation. He says,
Will ye mark one thing more, that epulemur doth here refer to immolatus? To Christ, not every way considered, but as when He [was] offered. Christ’s body that now is. True; but not Christ’s body as now it is, but as then it was, when it was offered, rent, and slain, and sacrificed for us. Not, as now He is glorified, for so He is not, so He cannot be immolatus, for He is immortal and impassible. But as then He was when He suffered death, that is, passible and mortal. Then, in His passible estate did He institute this of ours, to be a memorial of His passible and Passio both. And we are in this action not only carried up to Christ, (Sursum corda) but we are also carried [back] to Christ as he was at the very instant, and [in the very act of His offering.] So, and no otherwise, do we represent Him. By the incomprehensible power of His eternal Spirit, not He alone, but He,[as at the very act of His offering], is made present to us, and we incorporate into His death, and invested in the benefits of it.
It seems that what is offered in the Eucharistic sacrifice on earth is what is offered in the Eucharistic sacrifice in heaven. Christ presents Himself to the Father as He then was at the Cross and He can do that because of who He now IS in His glorified state. So, what seems to take place in Eucharistic sacrifice for both Abbot and Andrewes is the offering of Christ as He then WAS at Calvary and uniting us to that offering in His conquering of death through resurrection and glory in ascension. Therefore, it is not anything new (status) but something that then was is represented to the Father for the forgiveness of sins. It is our worship that we bring and the blessing that we receive when we feed upon His Body and Blood in the Holy Sacrament. Interesting comparison, I think.


Anonymous Antonio said...

Why didn't Andrewes want to be "in communion with Peter"?
Just because he was too Anglican to be "Roman"...? (I still think that an Anglican Rite "in communion with Rome" is the only answer to this centuries-old schism).
He sounds "completely Catholic".

6:06 pm  
Anonymous Anonymous said...


The same things have passed through my mind. Though with many important doctrines to Rome such as intercession of Saints and devotion to Mary would not fall into line like the Eucharistic doctrine does. I wonder how much the language of Post-Vatican II makes him sound so Catholic? It is interesting that I find Buckeridge's sermon for Andrewes' funeral to not represent Andrewes' views appropriately at times.

I really need to read the best Catholic Theologian on Trent to get a better understanding of where some of the more nuanced differences may be. I'll be looking into that over the next few months. Thanks for coming by. It's been a while since I've heard from you.


7:54 pm  
Blogger Death Bredon said...

I have no doubts whatsoever that Andrewes was and is in communion with Peter and that he was and is Catholic. It's those who were and are institutionally tied to Rome about which I have my doubts . . . . :-)

2:30 am  

Post a Comment

<< Home

    O God, most glorious, most bountiful, accept, we humbly beseech thee, our praises and thanksgivings for thy holy Catholic Church, the mother of us all who bear the name of Christ; for the faith which it hath conveyed in safety to our time, and the mercies by which it hath enlarged and comforted the souls of men; for the virtues which it hath established upon earth, and the holy lives by which it glorifieth both the world and thee; to whom, O blessed Trinity (+), be ascribed all honour, might, majesty and dominion, now and for ever. Amen.
    --Bishop Lancelot Andrewes

Societas Sanctae Crucis

About Me

My Profile


  • To the Theotokos
  • My Parish Church
  • Taking Jesus to the Streets
  • The Angelus
  • Steel Family News
  • Anglicans For Life
  • My PHD Supervisor
  • Diocese of Durham
  • N.T. Wright Bishop of Durham
  • Bishop of Beverley FiF PEV
  • Forward in Faith
  • Religious of orthodox Tradition
  • Our Lady of Walsingham
  • Church of England
  • Church Times
  • C of E News
  • New Directions
  • Anglican Comm News Service
  • CaNN Classical Anglican News
  • Anglican Mainstream
  • Catholic World News
  • Zenit News
  • First Things
  • University of Durham
  • St. John's College
  • Touchstone: Mere Comments
  • American Chesterton Society
  • G.K. Chesterton
  • The "Colossal Genius"
  • C.S. Lewis
  • Dr. Marianne Dorman
  • Bishop Lancelot Andrewes
  • Theologia
  • The Paul Page
  • Renaissance Music
  • Wodehouse
  • Project Canterbury
  • Rosemary Pugh Books
  • Pusey House Oxford
  • Comm of the Resurrection
  • Anglicanism
  • Alexander Schmemann
  • Traditional-Anglican
  • Trushare Great Links
  • Books and Books
  • Paedocommunion
  • Summa Theologica
  • Didache
  • N.A.Patristics Society
  • Visit Olde World Family Heritage
  • Cardinal Newman Writings
  • EWTN
  • Vatican Library
  • Tune in to Ancient Faith Radio
  • Anglo-Catholic Central
  • Women for Faith and Family
  • Catholic Culture
  • Being better Dads.org
  • Anglicana Ecclesia
  • Catholic Societies

  • Mary:Grace and Hope in Christ
  • SSC England and Scotland
  • King Charles the Martyr
  • Catholic League Unitas
  • Catholic Union
  • Conf of the Blessed Sacrament
  • Society of Mary
  • Priests for Life
  • Anglican Blogs

  • TitusOneNine
  • Anthropax
  • Sacristan
  • Curate Repose
  • Whitehall
  • Apostolicity
  • The Patristic Anglican
  • All Too Common
  • Prydain
  • Thinking Anglicans
  • Drell's Descants
  • A-C Ruminations
  • emergent like slime
  • Open Thou our Lips
  • Haligweorc
  • The Confessing Reader
  • Dr. Leander Harding
  • Tex Anglican
  • St. George the Martyr
  • The Oxford Movement
  • Continuing Anglican
  • Wyclif.net
  • Third Mill. Catholic
  • Anglican Eucharistic Theol
  • Fr. Brian Douglas
  • RatherNot Blog
  • Full Homely Divinity
  • St.Peters London Docks Blog
  • In Hoc Signo Vinces
  • Anglican Wanderings
  • Timotheos Prologizes
  • Global South Anglican
  • Deaconess
  • Liturgical Links

  • 1549 Book of Common Prayer
  • 1550 Merbecke
  • 1559 Book of Common Prayer
  • 1570 Roman Mass
  • 1637 Scottish Prayer Book
  • 1662 English Prayer Book
  • 1718 Nonjurors Communion
  • 1928 Book of Common Prayer
  • 1962 Roman Mass
  • 1962 Roman Propers
  • 1969 Roman Mass
  • 1987 Anglican Use Mass
  • Pearcy Dearmer Everyman's History of the Prayer Book
  • The Liturgy of St. James
  • The Liturgy of St. Chrysostom
  • The Liturgy of St. Basil
  • Lectionary Central
  • Catholic Calendar
  • Common Prayer Calendar
  • The Roman Breviary
  • Anglican Breviary
  • Cantica Nova
  • The Music Makers
  • Catholic Liturgy Site
  • Directorium Anglicanum
  • Catholic Blogs

  • Numerous British Catholic Blogs
  • Carpe canum
  • Ignatius Insights
  • Ancient and Future Catholics
  • Catholic Pontificator
  • Random Thoughts
  • Fr. Newman's Web page
  • fides et ardor
  • St Paul Centre for Theology
  • Canterbury Tales
  • The Shrine of Holy Whapping
  • Sacramentum Vitae
  • Cardinal Schonborn
  • Pertinacious Papist
  • Ratzinger Online
  • The New Liturgical Movement
  • Scripture and Tradition
  • Against the Grain
  • Mark Shea
  • ad limina apostolorum
  • Dappled Things
  • Amy Welborn Old Blog
  • Amy Welborn New Blog
  • Catholic Catechism
  • Benedict Blog
  • Mike Aquilina
  • Libertas et Memoria
  • Video melior
  • Orthodox Blogs

  • Energies of the Trinity
  • Orthodoxy Today
  • Monachos
  • Onion Dome
  • This Is Life
  • Orthodoxie
  • Chrysostom Web Page
  • Society of Chrysostom
  • Cathedra Unitatis
  • Our Life in Christ
  • Orthodox Way
  • Exploring Orthodoxy
  • Everything Orthodox
  • Parish Web Sites

  • Durham Cathedral
  • St. Peters London Docks
  • St. Silas London
  • St. Mary Mag Middlesex
  • St. Augustine London
  • St. John the Evanglelist Berks
  • St. Pancras London
  • St. James the Great Darlington
  • St. Mary Bletchingley
  • St. James Paddington London
  • St. George Hanworth
  • St. Helens Auckland
  • St. Mary Magdalene Sunderland
  • Archives